Comments on: A Case for Open Data in Transit http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/ Documenting Livable Streets Worldwide Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:10:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Pragmatist999 http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-263214 Pragmatist999 Mon, 27 Jun 2011 21:43:00 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-263214 It is very disappointing that transit officials in my hometown Phoenix Arizona has decided to retreat to the caves for fear of "terrorists" who might use real-time transit information to blow up people.  It is very disappointing that transit officials in my hometown Phoenix Arizona has decided to retreat to the caves for fear of "terrorists" who might use real-time transit information to blow up people. 

]]> By: Pragmatist999 http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-263212 Pragmatist999 Mon, 27 Jun 2011 21:42:00 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-263212 It is very disappointing that transit officials in my hometown Phoenix Arizona has decided to retreat to the caves for fear of "terrorists" who might use real-time transit information to blow up people.  It is very disappointing that transit officials in my hometown Phoenix Arizona has decided to retreat to the caves for fear of "terrorists" who might use real-time transit information to blow up people. 

]]> By: Pragmatist999 http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-263213 Pragmatist999 Mon, 27 Jun 2011 21:42:00 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-263213 It is very disappointing that transit officials in my hometown Phoenix Arizona has decided to retreat to the caves for fear of "terrorists" who might use real-time transit information to blow up people.  It is very disappointing that transit officials in my hometown Phoenix Arizona has decided to retreat to the caves for fear of "terrorists" who might use real-time transit information to blow up people. 

]]> By: porno http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-206738 porno Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:30:28 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-206738 Links between tech, transparency and community-based democracy in India. Links between tech, transparency and community-based democracy in India.

]]> By: Katie http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-205611 Katie Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:59:40 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-205611 Great piece! I recently visited Seattle and discovered, pretty much accidentally, that I was able to get complete directions, including times, for public transit by using google maps on a mobile device. Had I not been able to use the bus system so easily, I probably would not have gotten to as many places around the city as I did. I suspect it was tapping into schedules, and wasn't real-time, but the buses seemed to all be running on schedule. Great piece! I recently visited Seattle and discovered, pretty much accidentally, that I was able to get complete directions, including times, for public transit by using google maps on a mobile device. Had I not been able to use the bus system so easily, I probably would not have gotten to as many places around the city as I did. I suspect it was tapping into schedules, and wasn't real-time, but the buses seemed to all be running on schedule.

]]> By: Ben http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-203578 Ben Thu, 19 Aug 2010 04:23:18 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-203578 It really is a no-brainer to open up the bus information. What really needs to happen is a more flexible busing system that will reroute according to demand. I regret to say that most jobs in Cleveland are not directly downtown. It would be better to reroute buses to directly respond to traffic patterns to get the most people where they need to go. It really is a no-brainer to open up the bus information. What really needs to happen is a more flexible busing system that will reroute according to demand. I regret to say that most jobs in Cleveland are not directly downtown. It would be better to reroute buses to directly respond to traffic patterns to get the most people where they need to go.

]]> By: JZ http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-203327 JZ Mon, 16 Aug 2010 14:28:52 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-203327 Links between tech, transparency and community-based democracy in India. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jul/30/information-beautiful-india-cameron Links between tech, transparency and community-based democracy in India.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jul/30/information-beautiful-india-cameron

]]> By: Jym http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-203244 Jym Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:39:57 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-203244 @anon - In Boston, at least, there's a solution for people who have phones with texting capability: send "mbta" to the number 41411. Info for other cities here: http://www.nextbus.com/wirelessConfig/sms.jsp @anon - In Boston, at least, there's a solution for people who have phones with texting capability: send "mbta" to the number 41411. Info for other cities here:

http://www.nextbus.com/wirelessConfig/sms.jsp

]]> By: Nick Grossman http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-202979 Nick Grossman Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:23:35 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-202979 @anon - it's true that a device of some kind is needed to make use of the data.  But as they've shown in Boston and elsewhere, waiting for agencies to build 100% of the hard infrastructure just locks up the info and makes it so no one can use it.  Better to have step 1 being open the data, which is incredibly cheap relative to building signs, and then have step 2 be to start building hard infrastructure as needed. This way, the info is out there as early as possible with the lowest possible government cost.  Then, enterprising citizens can build displays, both in the form of websites and mobile apps, as well as public displays like the one shown at JP licks in the video.  Chicago even provides a template for DIY info displays: http://www.transitchicago.com/developers/diydisplay.aspx @anon - it's true that a device of some kind is needed to make use of the data.  But as they've shown in Boston and elsewhere, waiting for agencies to build 100% of the hard infrastructure just locks up the info and makes it so no one can use it.  Better to have step 1 being open the data, which is incredibly cheap relative to building signs, and then have step 2 be to start building hard infrastructure as needed.

This way, the info is out there as early as possible with the lowest possible government cost. 

Then, enterprising citizens can build displays, both in the form of websites and mobile apps, as well as public displays like the one shown at JP licks in the video.  Chicago even provides a template for DIY info displays: http://www.transitchicago.com/developers/diydisplay.aspx

]]> By: JZ http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-202976 JZ Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:55:06 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-202976 In regards to the poor, SMS access and this potentially free phone service could help that https://www.safelinkwireless.com In regards to the poor, SMS access and this potentially free phone service could help that https://www.safelinkwireless.com

]]> By: anon http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-202932 anon Fri, 13 Aug 2010 05:03:44 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-202932 Does not work for the poor, because you need a computer and phone to use the apps.  The government should put information displays in and around transit points for everyone.  Boston and New York fall way behind in this aspect. Does not work for the poor, because you need a computer and phone to use the apps.  The government should put information displays in and around transit points for everyone.  Boston and New York fall way behind in this aspect.

]]> By: Steven Vance http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-202697 Steven Vance Wed, 11 Aug 2010 06:48:27 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-202697 To all the people alluding to the possibility of terrorism in relation to "up to the minute" predictions on bus and train arrivals: 1. Has any transit terrorism occurred (or failed to occur) because of the presence (or lack) of a sign that said the next train arrived in 2 minutes? 2. Should FlightStats.com stop publishing departure and arrival times for 1,000 domestic and international flights a day? And stop publishing alerts about delays? 3. Will "the bad guys" be more inclined to attack, cause violence, or "be terroristic" if they know the Route 8 bus arrives in 4 minutes versus "every 3-10 minutes"? If so, how? Let's take this a step further: 4. Let's order Google Maps and NAVTEQ to stop providing live traffic information.  5. That's not enough. Let's stop posting information in the newspaper about upcoming construction projects and detours in your town. Not knowing about a detour might throw off the bad guys' plans. Woo! Give me a break. To all the people alluding to the possibility of terrorism in relation to "up to the minute" predictions on bus and train arrivals:

1. Has any transit terrorism occurred (or failed to occur) because of the presence (or lack) of a sign that said the next train arrived in 2 minutes?
2. Should FlightStats.com stop publishing departure and arrival times for 1,000 domestic and international flights a day? And stop publishing alerts about delays?
3. Will "the bad guys" be more inclined to attack, cause violence, or "be terroristic" if they know the Route 8 bus arrives in 4 minutes versus "every 3-10 minutes"? If so, how?

Let's take this a step further:
4. Let's order Google Maps and NAVTEQ to stop providing live traffic information. 
5. That's not enough. Let's stop posting information in the newspaper about upcoming construction projects and detours in your town. Not knowing about a detour might throw off the bad guys' plans. Woo!

Give me a break.

]]> By: Quikboy http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-202685 Quikboy Wed, 11 Aug 2010 05:18:28 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-202685 Open Data in Transit is nice, but one has to wonder the security issues with releasing on-the-spot data about approaching trains or buses. Not that buses/trains don't already have set schedules, but it's not like you want to make it any easier for the bad guys. I think a Bing Maps API would be better, because not only is it cheaper, but also because Bing has better urban maps. Open Data in Transit is nice, but one has to wonder the security issues with releasing on-the-spot data about approaching trains or buses. Not that buses/trains don't already have set schedules, but it's not like you want to make it any easier for the bad guys.

I think a Bing Maps API would be better, because not only is it cheaper, but also because Bing has better urban maps.

]]> By: Nick Grossman http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-202194 Nick Grossman Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:48:34 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-202194 Andrew -- I just heard about Transcom's data coming online too.  As of today, though, the link to register for access to the data (http://feed.data.xcm.org:8080/signup/index.jsp) is broken. Transcom could/should do two things differently: 1) allow for unregistered users to access downloadable data.  The prevailing wisdom is that registration should only be required when using APIs that could be processer intensive and might need throttling.  And 2) they should open up a public discussion list for communication with data users -- the transit agencies that are doing this well (MTA and MBTA are two good examples) use an open discussion group to create a relationship with developers and also build a public archive of questions & answers. A while back, we wrote up a list of recommendations for agencies who are starting up data programs and want to build developer communities: http://openplans.org/civichacker/2010/02/12/bootstrapping-a-developer-outreach-program/ Andrew -- I just heard about Transcom's data coming online too.  As of today, though, the link to register for access to the data (http://feed.data.xcm.org:8080/signup/index.jsp) is broken.

Transcom could/should do two things differently: 1) allow for unregistered users to access downloadable data.  The prevailing wisdom is that registration should only be required when using APIs that could be processer intensive and might need throttling.  And 2) they should open up a public discussion list for communication with data users -- the transit agencies that are doing this well (MTA and MBTA are two good examples) use an open discussion group to create a relationship with developers and also build a public archive of questions & answers.

A while back, we wrote up a list of recommendations for agencies who are starting up data programs and want to build developer communities: http://openplans.org/civichacker/2010/02/12/bootstrapping-a-developer-outreach-program/

]]> By: Andrew Nicklin http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-202185 Andrew Nicklin Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:37:03 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-202185 Out of curiosity has anyone started looking at Transcom's data feeds (in beta testing), which is supposed to include realtime MTA data amongst others from the NYC Metro area? http://data.xcm.org/ Out of curiosity has anyone started looking at Transcom's data feeds (in beta testing), which is supposed to include realtime MTA data amongst others from the NYC Metro area?

http://data.xcm.org/

]]> By: Jessica http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-202096 Jessica Thu, 05 Aug 2010 17:19:03 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-202096 Go JP licks! Great video. how do we make this happen in the Los Angeles region? with over a million daily bus riders is would be a great asset to say the least. Go JP licks!

Great video. how do we make this happen in the Los Angeles region? with over a million daily bus riders is would be a great asset to say the least.

]]> By: Josh Crandall http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-201999 Josh Crandall Wed, 04 Aug 2010 21:03:28 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-201999 Great video. I actually spoke at the Google/MTA unconf in NYC on 5/5/2010...and I was blown away by the "bear hug" that Jay Walder (and MTA) gave to the developer community. My system (clever commute) does NOT use much MTA data...but nonetheless it was great to see how open they are to democratizing data Great video. I actually spoke at the Google/MTA unconf in NYC on 5/5/2010...and I was blown away by the "bear hug" that Jay Walder (and MTA) gave to the developer community. My system (clever commute) does NOT use much MTA data...but nonetheless it was great to see how open they are to democratizing data

]]> By: David Turner http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-201996 David Turner Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:26:10 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-201996 Even before the data was public, it was not a secret where the trains and buses ran. It's also not a secret where large groups of people congregate. Even if it were the case that MTA vehicles always ran on time, someone bent on wrongdoing would not benefit at all from this data, because it doesn't reveal anything otherwise unknown. It's worth considering security before releasing public data -- but a security threat has to be real; merely saying the word "bomb" does not justify keeping anything secret. (full disclosure: I wrote some of the software seen in this film) Even before the data was public, it was not a secret where the trains and buses ran. It's also not a secret where large groups of people congregate. Even if it were the case that MTA vehicles always ran on time, someone bent on wrongdoing would not benefit at all from this data, because it doesn't reveal anything otherwise unknown.

It's worth considering security before releasing public data -- but a security threat has to be real; merely saying the word "bomb" does not justify keeping anything secret.

(full disclosure: I wrote some of the software seen in this film)

]]> By: Russ Nelson http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-201995 Russ Nelson Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:25:27 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-201995 Would it surprise any of you to find out that most forms of vehicle tracking are protected by software patents? For example, the ineffably obvious one of attaching a GPS to a radio, and "phoning home" with the location ... patented. Or so I am assured by deeplocal.com, which is heavily invested in this space. It's clear to me that the first thing we need to do is get the government out of our way, before we can use it as a platform. You know Mordac, Dilbert's character who is the "Preventer of IT Services"? We have government, preventer of citizen services. I don't want a free market. I want instead to replace government regulation with citizen regulation. Rather than keep bad products off the market, I want citizens to not buy things that don't work. Rather than create idea monopolies, I want businesses to have to provide service with their ideas. If they're good ideas, they'll get rewarded by customers. If it's a good idea, but they can't execute, why should they be able to block others' execution with a patent? Would it surprise any of you to find out that most forms of vehicle tracking are protected by software patents? For example, the ineffably obvious one of attaching a GPS to a radio, and "phoning home" with the location ... patented. Or so I am assured by deeplocal.com, which is heavily invested in this space.

It's clear to me that the first thing we need to do is get the government out of our way, before we can use it as a platform. You know Mordac, Dilbert's character who is the "Preventer of IT Services"? We have government, preventer of citizen services.

I don't want a free market. I want instead to replace government regulation with citizen regulation. Rather than keep bad products off the market, I want citizens to not buy things that don't work. Rather than create idea monopolies, I want businesses to have to provide service with their ideas. If they're good ideas, they'll get rewarded by customers. If it's a good idea, but they can't execute, why should they be able to block others' execution with a patent?

]]> By: Tim Bischoff http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/comment-page-1/#comment-201993 Tim Bischoff Wed, 04 Aug 2010 20:13:50 +0000 http://www.streetfilms.org/?p=47545#comment-201993 I think it would be good to know more about transit schedules, I work in NYC but would be concerned that not all people would use the info for good. NYC receives soo many bomb threats, and they are real threats, Times Square a few months ago. If it is shared it should be by subscription and those who subscribe should have their info cross referenced by homeland security. Then it's a good idea. I think it would be good to know more about transit schedules, I work in NYC but would be concerned that not all people would use the info for good. NYC receives soo many bomb threats, and they are real threats, Times Square a few months ago. If it is shared it should be by subscription and those who subscribe should have their info cross referenced by homeland security. Then it's a good idea.

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