Count Cars Breaking the Law in Prospect Park!
Almost every time Doug Gordon visits Prospect Park he sees vehicles entering illegally after it is closed to cars at 7 pm. It made him mad, so he got out his video camera.
StreetFilms obtained the footage he took on June 20th near the 3rd Street/P'Park West entrance and truncated it into this enlightening bit. Count along as dozens of drivers break the law!
We think Doug is awesome and we whole-heartedly encourage more concerned citizens to act constructively to highlight what is going on in their community.
I've been moving the barricades for years now. I'm pretty sure Alan M. once told me that Tupper Thomas encouraged us to do it as it takes a long time for the workers to get around.
I was hassled last summer by the cops, though.
I just got my spring Transportation Alternatives magazine, which says
Any updates on that?
The current system obviously doesn't work.
Give me a break. Hey, are you standing at the park in the morning to see whether they OPEN the gates 15 minutes late, thereby giving the bikers extra car-free time in the morning? "Five minutes are important to people who use the park after work?" And what about the people in the cars trying to get home?
Nice try, Bligo, but as much as you pro-car trolls would like to frame the debate as cars versus crazy cyclists, it's not all about bikes.
The park is open to traffic in the morning from 7 to 9 AM. How many children do you know who want to ride their bikes or go out to play at 6:30 AM?
Bligo, that's all fine and good, but how do you explain the people who cut through the gates? Does their need to save a minute or two trump the posted hours and barriers?
As a frequent early-morning user, I can tell you that the gates in PP are NEVER open late. In fact, they're often early -- at 6:50a you can already see a line of cars lined up at Park Circle like the pole position at Indy. Gates open and by 6:58 they're off to the races.
Just like anything else in NYC, people do whatever they can get away with.
I take my kids to the Park from time to time even though we live in Sunset Park. I hate when you are in the park when closed with your guard somewhat down and a car comes zooming thru. Being in a park should be one of the least stressful times of the day. Drivers are being selfish. Yes even closing the gates 5 minutes late does make a difference.
Come on, you HAVE to have something better to do with your time.
This is Brooklyn, NYC. Also known as a city of four million people. The cars share the park with bikes.
Occasionally there's a variation of 15 minutes or so in the gates closing. So what? Every once in awhile a bicyclist runs a red light. OK all the time. Sometimes the subway doesn't come on time. In other news sometimes the bank opens a little late. One time McDonalds switched to lunch at 10:45 and I COULD NOT GET MY DAMM MCMUFFIN UNTIL THE NEXT DAY!!!
And so on. As for people going through the barriers when there's a gap... yougottabekidding dude. Are you aware you live in BROOKLYN? Have you noticed that every single storefront has pull down metal grates? That's because NORMAL LOCKED DOORS are not enough. Welcome to the city.
If you want peaceful parks suitable for your little kids with curteous drivers slowing down for them MOVE BACK TO THE SUBURBS from where you very clearly originated.
You.
Live.
In.
Brooklyn.
Pay attention, holmes. We're not in Wilmette or Shaker Heights or wherever the hell you came from any more. Put down the video camera and welcome to the big city.
hey flailey, i've been here almost 25 years (and didn't grow up in the 'burbs either), and your definition of brooklyn does not cut it with me. cars in the park does not fall in the same category as late subways or no mcmuffin.
central and prospect parks were built before the automobile existed, remember? they were never intended to be "shared with cars".
The parks were also built before rollerblades and spoiled self-righteous yuppies were invented.
So by the same logic....
Flailey,
Speaking about having to have something better to do with your time...
Does that also include posting extremely long messages on vlogs criticising someone for trying to be constructive in their community?
I guess you don't have anything better to do...
If about 100 words is "extremely long" I recommend doing something about that attention span problem of yours.
And "constructive" is really just a code word for "things that make my neighboorhod cater to the whims of MY children and MY habits and MY way of doing things"
Next up, you guys will replace Fulton Mall with stores more suitable for white people. I've seen this movie before, I already know the ending.
If you want to be "constructive" in your community build low income housing and find jobs for those without masters degrees.
If you want a pristine green park with no scary cars for Tyler and Sienna to ride bikes in then head to Larchmont and leave Brooklyn to the city dwellers. They also have stripmalls there. You'll love it.
flailey, car-free parks are not in the same category as gentrification. if you are worried about kids with asthma who have no trees on their block (presumably this would NOT include tyler and sienna), they need car-free parks too.
for more on the importance of parks, trees and opportunities for safe exercise for kids (and adults) who live in low-income communities, check out majora carter's work in the south bronx.
and by the way, "real" city dwellers ride the subway.
Why is Flailey just focusing on bikes? What about the other people who come with their kids to barbecue, boat, fish, run, walk, fly kites, play frisbee, play soccer, play Little League, walk their dogs, picnic, etc. It's a little too easy to turn this into "bikers are crazy," so no thanks on the straw man argument, Flailey.
So do you want a car-free park or do you want the gates closed on time?
You guys can't even get it straight. If the original video author wants a car-free park he should say so, instead of complaining about a minor 15 minute delay in closing the gates one time.
This is a big and extremely dense city that has a lot of conflicting needs and agendas. I'm tired of tunnel-vision NIMBYism. When you live in one of the world's largest and most dense metropolitan areas there are compromises. We have to deal with cars, every city does. This is not the suburbs.
It's just sad that people consider this kind of mindless activism (OH MY GOD, 15 MINUTES WENT BY) anything other than the utter solipsism that it is.
There are a lot of things wrong with this city that require focused attention from the "haves" which this video's author obviously is.
A 15 minute delay on that gate isn't one of those things. Like I said, I've seen this movie. All I'd have to do is buy you guys a couple of parking spaces and a house on long island and you'd be making videos about how they don't open the gates early enough.
Interesting how Flailey uses terms like "you guys" to describe everyone with one broad brush. How does s/he know that "you guys" aren't also already fighting to build low income housing? That's an ignorant comment...
Last time I looked, Prospect Park is as diverse a place anywhere in NYC. A car-free Park benefits everyone!!
It benefits everyone except people who use the roads and/or are in cars or trade trucks or taxis or buses.
Not everyone can live close to the subway, and some people have jobs that involve tools and a work truck, rather than a computer and a desk. You may recognize these people, they are the people that come when you call your landlord to scream about the heat in your tasteful floor-through.
I realize these facts may come a revelation to you but these people also need to get to their homes and/or jobs elsewhere in Brooklyn.
"Real city dwellers" ride the bus and drive vans with graffitti on them all day. Oblivious white people with brownstones take the subway and/or stand on the corner with video cameras for no reason.
Silly rabbit, parks are for cars!
Sheesh, parks for quiet enjoyment, green space, and recreation? What were you thinking? Damn idealists...
Change the rules and ban cars, fine. But sit with a video camera and record the fact that sometimes parks employees are 15 minutes late is utterly lame. Of course they might be late. This proves nothing other than stuff in the city doesn't always run on time.
And if this is about minor rule violations, consider how many cyclist violate laws too. Riding on the sidewalk (illegal!), running red lights, riding the wrong way up a one-way-street, etc. It's an imperfect world and an even more imperfect city. You want to ban cars in the park, that's fine with me. The way to do it is not to prove that city workers are showing up a little late.
Sure it is an imperfect world, but I always thought the point of an imperfect world is for people that care to try to improve it.
If someone wants to record video on a street to show why something is wrong, so be it.
The drives should be car-free. Period. And whatever the rules are now should be strictly enforced.
To add: the world was imperfect when everyone had polio. Now we have a vaccine for it. To stand around and accept the status quo helps no one.
"The drives should be car-free. Period. And whatever the rules are now should be strictly enforced."
The rules now are that cars are allowed in the park twice a day. Do try to keep up. If you're asking for the rules to be changed then make a video about why cars shouldn't be in the park AT ALL.
Not about the blindingly obvious, which is that park workers have a 15 minute margin of error for routine maintenance.
I love it when Gothamist or Curbed links to posts like this. Then you get a whole bunch of snarky comments by people who know absolutley zero about the issue at hand.
Central and Prospect Parks are for people, not cars. Period.
Keep up? What makes you think I didn't know that already?
I said whatever the rules are now should be enforced, which means NO CARS after 7 pm. And I didn't make the video and have no intention of making one about cars not being in the park at all. But I do support the park being car free.
Maybe you should make a movie about how people can be 15 minutes late for everything. That's a great way we can all behave.
"I love it when Gothamist or Curbed links to posts like this. Then you get a whole bunch of snarky comments by people who know absolutley zero about the issue at hand."
I live, work, and vote in Brooklyn and I use Prospect Park regularly. In fact I've never driven a car through it my life, I've only used it for recreation. But I do have the capacity for empathy.
I'm also sick of the same tired "activism" in my neighborhood by people who don't speak for me.
"Central and Prospect Parks are for people, not cars. Period"
Period? You mean in your opinion, right? You've obviously been overruled by a duly elected government here.
If you want to ban cars from the park THEN DO SOMETHING TO BAN CARS FROM THE PARK instead of complaining about 15 minutes. There is a context to this discussion you know, and it's the video above, not all possible points of view.
And while you're at it be prepared to acknowledge that smart people who actually live here too might not agree with you.
There's a very strong tendency for well educated, upper middle class, liberal, white people who move to previously marginal neighborhoods to act in predictable ways. They want everything preserved *just* the way it was when they got there. Let's keep crumbling factories and giant unsafe railyards instead of building a real downtown. Besides who watches basketball? Certainly not my friends from the proto-lesbian-vegan-wicca-book-club. Isn't basketball a sport dominted by black people?
Oh wait...
"I love it when Gothamist or Curbed links to posts like this. Then you get a whole bunch of snarky comments by people who know absolutley zero about the issue at hand."
I live, work, and vote in Brooklyn and I use Prospect Park regularly. In fact I've never driven a car through it my life, I've only used it for recreation. But I do have the capacity for empathy.
I'm also sick of the same tired "activism" in my neighborhood by people who don't speak for me.
"Central and Prospect Parks are for people, not cars. Period"
Period? You mean in your opinion, right? You've obviously been overruled by a duly elected government here.
If you want to ban cars from the park THEN DO SOMETHING TO BAN CARS FROM THE PARK instead of complaining about 15 minutes. There is a context to this discussion you know, and it's the video above, not all possible points of view.
And while you're at it be prepared to acknowledge that smart people who actually live here too might not agree with you.
There's a very strong tendency for well educated, upper middle class, liberal, white people who move to previously marginal neighborhoods to act in predictable ways. They want everything preserved *just* the way it was when they got there. Let's keep crumbling factories and giant unsafe railyards instead of building a real downtown. Besides who watches basketball? Certainly not my friends from the proto-lesbian-vegan-wicca-book-club. Isn't basketball a sport dominted by black people?
Oh wait...
Flailey, you're description of the suburbs is all wrong. The car culture, the accidents, the gas stations are much more prevalent in the suburbs...not the city.
This city was designed before the car...Cars/SUVs and driving in general are the influence of the suburbs encroaching on our city. So its YOU who needs to go to the suburbs! Let the city kids have their park to play in.
"you're" should read "your" (sorry)
Hey, Flailey and Bligo,
Congratulations for standing up to the cycling obsessives.
You broke their cacoon that insulates them from reality. They sit around this blog all day, ruminating on what a beautiful world it coud be and how misguided everyone is who doesn't have a bike.
It is like a mutual masturbation society and when someone throws in a differing opinion, the darlings don't like their staus quo shattered
They rail not only against cars, but even pedestrians.
Witness the comment by 'Nobody' at #23:
"I love it when Gothamist or Curbed links to posts like this. Then you get a whole bunch of snarky comments by people who know absolutley zero about the issue at hand."
Oh, yeah, And you do, buster? No one else knows anything about traffic patterns and the law except you and your little friends at Trans/ Alt?
The obsessive person who took the video should give equal time to illegal actions by cyclists. Stand at PPW and Union and see how many damn cyclists run the red light.
Now watch them come after me!
Sorry, guys, I know the truth hurts.
Simple fact: most people don't like cyclists the way they currently behave.
Clean up your act before you criticize others.
You losers with that much time on your hands, go plant some trees in all the empty treeboxes. It's 15 minutes of open gates.
Central and Prospect Parks were built with roads, for automobiles. Trying to remove vehicles for your own cynical, self-righteous reasons is childish. Go volunteer with your extra time.
cyclists tend to be assholes
but not nearly as bad as drivers
cars have no place in prospect park - ever
unfortunately any debate about cars in the park is wekend when the behavior of cyclists is used as a counter-attack.
that leaves us pedestrians screwed from both sides.
but i'll say it again
cars have NO place in prospect park, this is a wrong that desperately needs to be righted
hey realistism,
both parks were built before cars were invented.
nice try though, play again
Number 30, please see Number 24. Next.
I'll chime in here a bit.
While there is room for healthy debate on this issue, please keep the discussion civil. There were a few comments I saw on Curbed that went beyond that and I will delete any that stray in that area.
As the video editor, I can't tell you the numbers of times people complain about cars illegally entering the Park during times they are not allowed. This is a big issue.
I think Doug did a great job and there is nothing wrong with him using his time to highlight something illegal. Some people use their free time to do advocacy, some like to hang out with their family, some fight for lower income housing, some watch "Jeopardy". It's a personal choice.
This is not just a cycling issue. It is an issue all people who walk, bike, play ball, ride horses, have BBQs in the Park care about. And illegal behavior by drivers is another aspect to highlight in the move to close our parks to cars.
It's wonderful having a dialogue about the issue of whether we should have cars in parks or not. It's a shame that much of this dialogue doesn't focus on the pros and cons or costs and benefits of having cars in parks v. restricting their use but rather becomes name-calling with racial and class undertones. It's quite possible if both sides tone down the rhetoric, solutions could be reached that better consider the needs of the community. For example, perhaps if the City provided better mass transit options, folks would not have to rely on cars as much. Personally -- and I will disclaim here that I am an outspoke critic of our society's in general and the City's in particular reliance on cars -- I challenge those car advocates among you to explain why the rest of us should continue to subsidize private car use in terms of free parking on City streets and why we should all bear the cost of your driving a car in terms of pollution not to mention the hazzards of being killed or maimed while you are the only ones enjoying the benefit(s) (if there are any) of driving? AW
One of the most outrageous things about letting cars use Prospect Park is that the time saved for automobile commuters is minimal. There is very little difference in the distance you drive if you use the Park versus the adjacent streets, and the time gained by avoiding traffic is probably about 3 minutes. Just go take a look -- traffic on Prospect Park West moves along just fine between 5pm and 7pm. Why are we giving Park Drive West over to cars as well? Ditto Flatbush along the Park in the morning rush.
So what we have is a situation in which hundreds of people who would like to use the park to exercise or take a quiet walk or practice baseball skills with their kid after work has to deal with a stream of cars, each one carrying just a single commuter who is getting home just a tiny bit faster.
It's the poorest allocation of valuable park space imaginable.
Not to mention the fact that only a small minority of Brooklynites use a car to commute!
It's all especially grotesque in teh summer time when it's light out and people go to the park after work. There are commuters driving their cars through the park at the prime time for after work recreation.
There are too many stupid comments to respond to on this thread. But the most grotesque of all is the idea that it is ELITIST to want cars out of Prospect Park. My god. It's wealthy people who have second homes nestled in nature; it's wealthy people who have gym memberships where they can exercise unmolested by automobiles; and it's wealthy people who have backyards. For the rest of us, Prospect Park is our second home and green respite and aerobic studio all in one. And we would really like it to be car-free.
I'm against cars in Prospect Park AND I'm against cyclists riding on the sidewalks. It's possible to be against both, and the fact that there are rude bikers out there has little impact on this argument. Bad behavior in one place doesn't excuse it somewhere else.
If someone would like to film cyclists on the sidewalks, go right ahead. It's a valid complaint. But I fail to see how it has anything to do with what's happening in this case. Let's keep the debate on-topic.
The law states that the park is closed to automobiles after 7:00pm. It is next to impossible for the Parks Department to enforce this law as diligently as you (or I) would like. Why not put your camera down for a second and put the partitions in place yourself? In your video, one cyclist attempted to do this, but he didn't have the good sense to do it in a manner in which cars couldn't simply drive right between them. If it's after 7:00pm and you notice the gates haven't yet been closed, CLOSE THEM! Whining about how it's unfair does about as much good as egging on the pro-car people. Your whiny inaction and lack of common sense only reinforces the stereotype of entitled and myopic impotence that characterizes our neighborhood (hey, if the shoe fits...). IF IT'S 7:03 AND YOU SEE THE GATES ARE STILL OPEN, QUIT BITCHING AND CLOSE THEM!
Actually Lance:
As commenter #1 pointed out, he was hassled for doing just that. I was too many years ago and I know of others who have.
The drivers are the ones breaking the law, not us.
I don't know what these people like more - the self-righteous sound of their own voice or the enjoyment of an automobile-free park after 7pm. If that fifteen minutes is SO IMPORTANT to you, then CLOSE THE FUCKING GATES YOURSELF and go enjoy the park... Case Closed.
Yes, the two Parks were built before cars.
And before bicycles too!!
However, horses wee permitted - encouraged - on the park drives. (That is how Harlem River Drive got its name - not from driven cars, but from driven horse carriages that would rally there on Sunday afternoons in the late 19th century. It was a natural evolution from horse carriages to horseless carriages)
Ever walk over horse manure on a rainy day to get to the Long Meadow? That's fun. Let's return to those days.
Shall we ban bikes and cars and return to horses?
Is that the historicity you seek?
Fact is, there were cars on those drives for over a century. I remember in the late 40s, as a child, seeing the cars in Prospect Park.
No one complained then. It wasn't till the 80s or so until Yuppies started invading our fair borough that there was talk of closing the park.
And, Clarence, I can't tell you how many times people have complained about illegal cyclists. A lot more people than who complain about 15 minutes of tardiness by a city employee.
I think the comments from non-Transportation Alterntive people today reflect that overall sense of disdain the general population feels towards cyclists. Why? Becaue they seem constantly to be violating our laws.
I realize these 'outside' comments are disturbing to the insular world of cycling advocates, but they reflect the general sense of what non-cycling New Yorkers feel about cyclists.
As I said, to be fair, equitable and unbiased, Doug should video tape how many cyclists run red lights at PPW and Union Street, to name but one example.
And Adam White above wants cars to be charged for parking on city streets. Fine, they are, Adam. That is why there are thousands and thousands of parking meters and garages in the city.
Again, to be fair and neutral, shouldn't bikes be charged as well for parking on public sidewalks?
And what about the cyclist who forever chains her bike to my building landing - private property?
Time to clean up your act, guys and gals. if you want respect, you must give respect.
I have been an auxiliary police officer in Central Park for thirty years. At various times, the task of closing the gates to motorized traffic has been mandated to NYPD, Parks Dept, and others. Often, we auxiliaries notice the gates open and we close them.
Motorists, including taxis, often feel that a few minutes after the closing time will not affect joggers, cyclists, pedestrians, and others. The city has been lucky that vulnerable users haven't been hurt by a two-ton missile hurtling down the closed roadway after closing time. It's just a matter of time before someone gets creamed at 7:15 pm by a driver who says he entered at 6:59.
I advocate requiring all vehicles to exit immediately at closing time, and not to continue cruising around after the closing bell.
I advocate citizens closing the gates at any time the entrance should be closed.
Good luck!
"But the most grotesque of all is the idea that it is ELITIST to want cars out of Prospect Park. My god. It’s wealthy people who have second homes nestled in nature; it’s wealthy people who have gym memberships where they can exercise unmolested by automobiles; and it’s wealthy people who have backyards."
And it's wealthy people who are in a position to sit at a computer with an internet connection at 2:00 in the afternoon and have pointless debates about this kind of thing. It's also wealthy people that can afford video cameras and video editing software and the time to spend on this stuff. It's also wealthy people that buy $2000 bikes. If you have one of those STFU please. Thanks in advance.
Who the hell are you kidding pretending to be non-elitist? Give it a rest. Seriously, this entire thing is a circle jerk. The working poor aren't exactly reading this blog. And the OP isn't one of them in any event.
In every single major land-use/resource argument that I've observed in this borough, from cars in prospect park to bike lanes to Ikea to Atlantic Crossing, it's been upper class well educated whites on one side and the working class minorities (who are a majority of this borough) on the other. Apologies for pointing out the obvious but not everyone wants what you want.
Get together a rally to ban cars from the park where 90% or more of the attendees aren't white, with bachelors degree or higher, born outside of the five boroughs, and earning 3x the minimum wage or more. Let's see it.
As soon as I do I'll rescind my elistist comments. Ain't holding my breath.
Hey Brooklyn Trolley Dodger, I would be happy to pay my share for parking on City Streets provided that the charge applies to cars as well and is done on a square foot usage basis. I'm also happy to pay for the CO2 emissions I breath out in exchange for car driver's paying for their emissions.
Amazing, this video is about drivers breaking the law and all people can do is shift the debate to other things. That's a key debate tactic used when people are on the losing end.
Great going, Adam (#45). You are one in a thousand.
Anyone else out there who agrees with Adam?
Any Transportation Alternative member willing to lobby for parking meters for bikes?
Or is Adam the Devil's Advocate?
Amazing, this video is about drivers breaking the law FOR 15 MINUTES WHEN THE GATES WEREN'T CLOSED and all people can do is shift the debate to other things LIKE BANNING CARS PERMANENTLY FROM THE PARK.
That’s a key debate tactic used when people are on the losing end.
YUP, THANKS FOR YOUR CANDOR
. . . and Che Flaiey, I'm glad to see we have a spokesperson on this blog who speaks for the huddled non-white and uneducated masses : 0
$2,000 bike? I use a $45 bike to get around the Park. What does that make me?
". . . and Che Flaiey, I’m glad to see we have a spokesperson on this blog who speaks for the huddled non-white and uneducated masses"
No problem, son!
Needless to say I'm a white upper middle class type with a large apartment overlooking the promenade and a house in Amagansett. Not to mention extremely attractive sexual partners.
But seeing as how I came up from the streets this kind of advocacy and understanding comes naturally to me. Perhaps you could learn it with practice.
Hasta la victoria siempre!
hmmm all the educated folks think one way, all the non-educated fols think the other way...yet the uneducated outnumber the educated..classic dilemna of democracy.
i'll take my chances with the educated folk...
Hey Flailey:
You said:
It benefits everyone except people who use the roads and/or are in cars or trade trucks or taxis or buses.
Not everyone can live close to the subway, and some people have jobs that involve tools and a work truck, rather than a computer and a desk. You may recognize these people, they are the people that come when you call your landlord to scream about the heat in your tasteful floor-through.
I realize these facts may come a revelation to you but these people also need to get to their homes and/or jobs elsewhere in Brooklyn.
I say 'I hear ya' but commercial traffic like work trucks are already banned from PP so that's not the issue.
Denton
"hmmm all the educated folks think one way, all the non-educated fols think the other way…yet the uneducated outnumber the educated..classic dilemna of democracy.
i’ll take my chances with the educated folk…"
Actually no, it's just the subset of educated folks who are dweebish enough to stand on the corner making lame videos and/or argue online about them.
All this noise is made as usual by a tiny minority that has way too much time on their hands and a warped view of the way things should be in an extremely dense and commercial city.
Have you people really not noticed that this is already the single most anti-car-friendly city in the entire country? That's great. Congestion pricing makes a lot of sense. Fabulous. Just spare me your self-righteous crap when this city has bigger problems.
And what the hell is the dilemma of democracy? Is that slang for being angry that you're massively outvoted by people who don't like your point of view?
Step away from the Ayn Rand, son, and rejoin us in America. The Flailey's of the world, guidos in bay ridge with hot rods, and even the brown people (the horror!) get to have a say too. There are places in the world without democracy but I don't think you'd like it there.
I'm not going to respond to the more opinion-based comments on here, only because there are too many.
But I would like to respond to questions of why I didn't move the barrier myself, or at least why I didn't move it earlier.
1. I have moved the gate myself in the past, but on some occasions have been told by the police to wait for a Parks Department van to do it. (Others have commented here that they've had similar experiences, although I've never experienced anything I'd call harassment.) This time, I decided to see what would happen if no one did anything.
2. When the man approached me and suggested moving the barrier, I did not hesitate to help. That did not stop people from driving through the open space anyway. (See #5, below, on this subject.)
3. There are things for which people depend on the police or parks officials. Should we have to count on a concerned citizen showing up at each entrance at 7:01 each night to shut the gates? As nice a sentiment as it is - concerned citizens unite! - it's not a very reliable system.
4. It's not always safe for a random person to walk across two lanes of traffic to erect a heavy gate, especially when you are blocking off a roadway to which, as many comments here have proven, many drivers feel a great sense of entitlement. (You can see a runner with the walk signal almost get hit in the video.) Regular citizens run the risk of raising the ire of motorists. A cyclist wearing spandex, a kid in a baseball uniform, or a runner in short jogging shorts doesn't convey the same level of authority as a police officer or a Parks Department employee in an van.
5. Relying on ordinary people to set up the gates increases the risk that they will be set up improperly, resulting in emergency vehicles being delayed should they need to enter the park. It's a bit of a paradox: the gates need to be set up so they send a clear off-limits message to regular motorists, but also so that they allow safe and quick access for police cars, fire trucks, ambulances and service vehicles. (The video clearly shows that such vehicles must be allowed unlimited access to the drive, regardless of car-free hours.)
Regarding the "Hey, it's only fifteen minutes," argument, I turned off my camera after the Parks Dept. van arrived. What is not seen are the four or five cars that still entered at 3rd Street, after the official set-up. Even at three in the afternoon one can see cars going around the barriers to cut through the park. Anyone who's focusing on the fifteen minutes is missing the larger point.
One last thing: this video is by no means a criticism of the good people who work in the park, setting up and taking down barriers and providing other valuable services, and no one would begrudge them a few minutes here and there. The longer video makes a point of saying that the problem is certainly not the fault of lower-level Parks Department employees. They are not the ones who provide only one van to close multiple entrances and they are not the ones who set park policy. Change will come from the top, when the Parks Department decides to install better gates and provide more resources to ensure strict adherence to opening and closing times.
Doug, thanks for writing in. Are the gates opened 15 minutes late also during the times of day when they should be open to cars? If so, the tardiness is a net wash.
You have a much more viable point to make with regard to vehicles dodging the closed gates after hours. Those drivers ought to be fined.
Bligo:
Many people I know who jog or ride in the AM say that cars regularly queue up at the gates to enter right at 7 AM and some even jump in early. However, my own experience in the early morning park are so few I can't validate that.
Setting aside the question of cars in the park for a moment -- do we really need the 3rd St. entrance? Most of the cars entering there were turning left off PPW. Seems like they could just as easily entered at the main Grand Army Plaza entrance. Why not close 3rd St., like Bartel-Pritchard?
Parks are for recreation. Period. Commuters - get out of the park. Come back when you want to have some fun, not endanger the lives of all those folks trying to enjoy the park.
Who cares when the parks were built? They have streets in them that were designed for traffic other than feet. Get over yourself, your bike and your over-inflated sense of entitlement.
Just because you grace the world with your virtuous, biking presence doesn't mean everyone else has to adapt to your sensibilities.
Realitistism,
What is it with the bike comments? Plenty of us are using the park for running and playing with our kids.
I don't even own a bike. I gave it away a few weeks ago.
I just want a safe space to bring my kids to play. Central Park is a crazy place weeknights.
Why would cars queue up for the morning opening? Why wouldn't they just drive around this relatively small park? It seems sort of silly.
Bligo, they queue up because there are fewer traffic lights int he park and you are less likely to get caught speeding. Studies have shown that 99% of the traffic on the CP loop exceeds the speed limit, I don't know if similar studies have been done on the PP Loop but it is a similar situation, I would expect similar conduct.
Small park? Small? Bligo have you even been to Prospect Park?
#63: Someone monikered "da chef" posted these facts on Curbed. I believe they are correct from what I recall from the study:
"From 7 to 8 AM on an average morning in Prospect Park:
9 out of 10 cars were speeding
A car ran a red light every two minutes
167 cars drove in the bicycle / pedestrian lane "
Hi Clarence (#63),
I just went outside for 15 minutes on Flatbush Avenue and observed the following:
Bikes on flatbush: 11
Bikes Running Red Lights: 11 out of 11
Bikes illegally on pedestrian sidewalk: 6
Why does this blog not seem to mention these type of stats? Or don't they fit into Trans Alt's world view?
I urge you to check out curbed.com. Someone (#33) comments on the atrocious behavior of the cyclists at the post-Gay Parade festivities in GV. Fifth Avenue was closed to cars all day and no one complained.
Yet, when Hudson River bike path was blocked for a couple of hours, cyclists go rude and ballistic.
That is just one example of why people have little sympathy for the cyclists' agenda.
Cyclists will NEVER get respect until they start showing some respect first.
Small in the sense that it doesn't take much longer to drive around. The park drive isn't a transverse, it's a loop on the outside edge, so it ought not save very much time except for red lights or unless you're speeding. It's not like driving around Central Park from West 86th to East 86th, which would take quite a while.
BTG: Are you referring to Steve (who is actually #63) or me...in any event I will respond...
You can go just about anywhere and observe bad and good behavior from both cyclists and/or drivers (today while walking in Red Hook and Carroll Gardens in the span of an hour I saw TWO drivers go the wrong way down streets and in one case an NYPD vehicle just flashed their lights and told the person to turn around! Talk about dangerous.)
I do not condone riding on the sidewalk or cyclists behaving badly. In fact, it probably gets me more angry than you because I am out there on the front lines trying to fight for better conditions for pedestrians and cyclists and each piece of bad behavior I see makes my job harder.
However, I don't know why you and many others continually talk about just cycling, when this vlog has plenty of videos about ped safety, transportation, children, open space issues, and making NYC a more livable city, which is the ultimate goal here - to enlighten our city. Cyclists are just one part of the community asking for drivers not to go in the park. I run in the park and drivers scare me when I am in there.
We have been researching a few PSAs to produce to ask cyclists to follow the law. In the future look for them. But we have almost no budget to work with, we all work very hard to do what we do.
I suggest Mr./Mrs./Ms. BTG if you want to compile stats and start your own blog, go right ahead.
Poor, angry Flailey. Poor victim. We feel sorry for him.
How many people are killed each year by cyclists? Hundreds of people are murdered every single year in this city by car drivers in a "hurry" to get somewhere.
Comparing a 135 pound cyclist on a 20 pound bike moving 5 mph on the sidewalk to a 1500 pound hunk of steel moving 35 mph through a park where children play. Yeah I guess I can see how the two are comparable. Give me a break.
I can't believe this is a debate about the rights of drivers to drive their cars in a PARK?! Ridiculous.
It's funny how this has become about good and bad cyclists versus cars. Why? I've watched both videos and neither say that this issue is just about cyclists but rather that it's about people who want to enjoy the park without cars. We see people biking, but we also see joggers, kids, a woman walking her dog, etc.
But I guess some people just want to use every available opportunity to hate on hipster bikers.
those hunks of steel are going 35 mph if we're lucky!
each of the 40+ cars entering the park after 7pm represents a vehicle that those inside were not on their guard for because the car-free hours had ended; each one represents a potential accident/injury.
Poor, poor Flailey. Victim of the yuppies and whites. We feel sorry for him. We do.
Too late now--but why didn't all o' youse who were fulminating and foaming at the mouth against Flailey simply ignore his amusing and comically deficient reasoning? You wasted your time getting baited into stupid arguments provoked by a stupid person (Flailey). The guy studied at Bob Grant and Rush Limbaugh Universities, obviously, and it shows, in his "intelligent", populist arguments. He's probably from Kansas.
Viking On (First in America, but we didn't colonize).
vikinggirl
This is a fucking amazingly rocking site. I'll be checking back.
Flailey is an experienced nose-tweaker and I think everyone here was an unwitting victim.
Supporting evidence:
http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=65319#65319
After looking through the pages of the link posted by "Nobody" above, I realized a few things.
#1 - "Flailey" is joking, mentally ill, or both.
#2 - The way his absurd comments generated support for cars in the park and focused the debate on bikes, "rich whites," and issues of class seems laughable now.
#3 - There is a bottom line...The park (Prospect, Central or any other) is no place for cars.
I can just imagine Flailey refreshing his browser for hours on end, waiting as the responses roll in to his comments. How sad.
Flaily is totally correct. Cars weren't around before but now they are... it's not a big deal that they are using the park 5 minutes late. What has happened to this country where everyone has sand where it shouldn't be. This hall monitor needs to leave the city if this bothers him.
This is just more "online people getting outraged about everything" and God why do you have to use a word like vlog? People think they are so special. I'm going to post a video about ants coming onto my property from my neighbor's and nothing being done about it. OH THE OUTRAGE
it's not about city workers being 15 minutes late here or there. that is not the issue.
the issue is that because people in the park are not expecting to encounter cars in the park after 7pm, each of those 40+ vehicles represents a potential accident/injury. simple.
Don't feed the trolls.
I think a larger point is being missed here. Someone took the time to point out a subject of concern that they had in a creative way, and in a way that stimulated discussion.
There can be no real social change without social interaction and video, especially video online is a great way to facilitate that. Lets use the energy that we could spend on petty name calling and stereotyping and put it to a better use like making our city safer and more enjoyable. Lets stick to constructive and active discussion instead of hiding behind a fake persona so that we can label people.
"There can be no real social change without social interaction and video"
Thank god someone invented video then right?
excellent film!!!!!
I noticed that there's a response up on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdR5xPYeuVs&watch_response
The park opens on time every day. I know because I ride out right as it's opening to cars and there's always a person standing there waiting for the clock to hit the hour on the dot. I ride back in at around 7, but it never closes on time. This is shameful. We want to cure obesity and give people a place to play but we don't give them the time to do it safely. I can't believe where our city's priorities are.
[...] who are submitting work to StreetFilms. Last month Brooklynite Doug Gordon shot this video of car traffic illegally entering Prospect Park. Likewise, Ian Dutton of Community Board 2 in Manhattan has been video-taping bike facilities to [...]
World Wide Web Resources...
I couldn't understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting...
Ok. so the moral is, let's all just start moving the barriers into place at closing time. Cause the folks working for the parks dept. certainly can't be at all the entrances simultaneously. (does anyone else wonder if all the cars driving through the park during the day, when supposedly it's closed, can really be official?)
I find it utterly unbelievable that in a city where cars can hardly go anywhere, and kids have sooooo much space to safely play, and joggers have all the space in the world to run, anybody would have the ridiculous idea to close prospect park for cars; Before you know it, we'll have NOWHERE left to go with our SUVs without stopping every minute. And the park is so laughably big, no wonder theres never a parking spot to be found. If you want a tree, drive upstate is what i say!
The discussion shouldn't be about opening or closing the park for cars, of for how long; but about the necessity of a park at all.
Don't just open the park, but destroy it, build an expressway, a couple of big parking lots and i think the neighbourhood could do with a decent shoppingmall finally!