Count Cars Breaking the Law in Prospect Park!

I just got my spring Transportation Alternatives magazine, which says

“The New York City Council
and Councilmember Gale
Brewer have decided once
again to push legislation
that would require a three-
month trial closure of
the Central and Prospect
Park Loop Drives from the
beginning of June through
the end of August.”

Any updates on that?

The current system obviously doesn't work.

Nice try, Bligo, but as much as you pro-car trolls would like to frame the debate as cars versus crazy cyclists, it's not all about bikes.

The park is open to traffic in the morning from 7 to 9 AM. How many children do you know who want to ride their bikes or go out to play at 6:30 AM?

As a frequent early-morning user, I can tell you that the gates in PP are NEVER open late. In fact, they're often early -- at 6:50a you can already see a line of cars lined up at Park Circle like the pole position at Indy. Gates open and by 6:58 they're off to the races.

Just like anything else in NYC, people do whatever they can get away with.

Come on, you HAVE to have something better to do with your time.

This is Brooklyn, NYC. Also known as a city of four million people. The cars share the park with bikes.

Occasionally there's a variation of 15 minutes or so in the gates closing. So what? Every once in awhile a bicyclist runs a red light. OK all the time. Sometimes the subway doesn't come on time. In other news sometimes the bank opens a little late. One time McDonalds switched to lunch at 10:45 and I COULD NOT GET MY DAMM MCMUFFIN UNTIL THE NEXT DAY!!!

And so on. As for people going through the barriers when there's a gap... yougottabekidding dude. Are you aware you live in BROOKLYN? Have you noticed that every single storefront has pull down metal grates? That's because NORMAL LOCKED DOORS are not enough. Welcome to the city.

If you want peaceful parks suitable for your little kids with curteous drivers slowing down for them MOVE BACK TO THE SUBURBS from where you very clearly originated.

You.

Live.

In.

Brooklyn.

Pay attention, holmes. We're not in Wilmette or Shaker Heights or wherever the hell you came from any more. Put down the video camera and welcome to the big city.

The parks were also built before rollerblades and spoiled self-righteous yuppies were invented.

So by the same logic....

If about 100 words is "extremely long" I recommend doing something about that attention span problem of yours.

And "constructive" is really just a code word for "things that make my neighboorhod cater to the whims of MY children and MY habits and MY way of doing things"

Next up, you guys will replace Fulton Mall with stores more suitable for white people. I've seen this movie before, I already know the ending.

If you want to be "constructive" in your community build low income housing and find jobs for those without masters degrees.

If you want a pristine green park with no scary cars for Tyler and Sienna to ride bikes in then head to Larchmont and leave Brooklyn to the city dwellers. They also have stripmalls there. You'll love it.

for more on the importance of parks, trees and opportunities for safe exercise for kids (and adults) who live in low-income communities, check out majora carter's work in the south bronx.

and by the way, "real" city dwellers ride the subway.

So do you want a car-free park or do you want the gates closed on time?

You guys can't even get it straight. If the original video author wants a car-free park he should say so, instead of complaining about a minor 15 minute delay in closing the gates one time.

This is a big and extremely dense city that has a lot of conflicting needs and agendas. I'm tired of tunnel-vision NIMBYism. When you live in one of the world's largest and most dense metropolitan areas there are compromises. We have to deal with cars, every city does. This is not the suburbs.

It's just sad that people consider this kind of mindless activism (OH MY GOD, 15 MINUTES WENT BY) anything other than the utter solipsism that it is.

There are a lot of things wrong with this city that require focused attention from the "haves" which this video's author obviously is.

A 15 minute delay on that gate isn't one of those things. Like I said, I've seen this movie. All I'd have to do is buy you guys a couple of parking spaces and a house on long island and you'd be making videos about how they don't open the gates early enough.

It benefits everyone except people who use the roads and/or are in cars or trade trucks or taxis or buses.

Not everyone can live close to the subway, and some people have jobs that involve tools and a work truck, rather than a computer and a desk. You may recognize these people, they are the people that come when you call your landlord to scream about the heat in your tasteful floor-through.

I realize these facts may come a revelation to you but these people also need to get to their homes and/or jobs elsewhere in Brooklyn.

"Real city dwellers" ride the bus and drive vans with graffitti on them all day. Oblivious white people with brownstones take the subway and/or stand on the corner with video cameras for no reason.

Change the rules and ban cars, fine. But sit with a video camera and record the fact that sometimes parks employees are 15 minutes late is utterly lame. Of course they might be late. This proves nothing other than stuff in the city doesn't always run on time.

And if this is about minor rule violations, consider how many cyclist violate laws too. Riding on the sidewalk (illegal!), running red lights, riding the wrong way up a one-way-street, etc. It's an imperfect world and an even more imperfect city. You want to ban cars in the park, that's fine with me. The way to do it is not to prove that city workers are showing up a little late.

To add: the world was imperfect when everyone had polio. Now we have a vaccine for it. To stand around and accept the status quo helps no one.

I love it when Gothamist or Curbed links to posts like this. Then you get a whole bunch of snarky comments by people who know absolutley zero about the issue at hand.

Central and Prospect Parks are for people, not cars. Period.

"I love it when Gothamist or Curbed links to posts like this. Then you get a whole bunch of snarky comments by people who know absolutley zero about the issue at hand."

I live, work, and vote in Brooklyn and I use Prospect Park regularly. In fact I've never driven a car through it my life, I've only used it for recreation. But I do have the capacity for empathy.

I'm also sick of the same tired "activism" in my neighborhood by people who don't speak for me.

"Central and Prospect Parks are for people, not cars. Period"

Period? You mean in your opinion, right? You've obviously been overruled by a duly elected government here.

If you want to ban cars from the park THEN DO SOMETHING TO BAN CARS FROM THE PARK instead of complaining about 15 minutes. There is a context to this discussion you know, and it's the video above, not all possible points of view.

And while you're at it be prepared to acknowledge that smart people who actually live here too might not agree with you.

There's a very strong tendency for well educated, upper middle class, liberal, white people who move to previously marginal neighborhoods to act in predictable ways. They want everything preserved *just* the way it was when they got there. Let's keep crumbling factories and giant unsafe railyards instead of building a real downtown. Besides who watches basketball? Certainly not my friends from the proto-lesbian-vegan-wicca-book-club. Isn't basketball a sport dominted by black people?

Oh wait...

Flailey, you're description of the suburbs is all wrong. The car culture, the accidents, the gas stations are much more prevalent in the suburbs...not the city.

This city was designed before the car...Cars/SUVs and driving in general are the influence of the suburbs encroaching on our city. So its YOU who needs to go to the suburbs! Let the city kids have their park to play in.

Hey, Flailey and Bligo,
Congratulations for standing up to the cycling obsessives.

You broke their cacoon that insulates them from reality. They sit around this blog all day, ruminating on what a beautiful world it coud be and how misguided everyone is who doesn't have a bike.

It is like a mutual masturbation society and when someone throws in a differing opinion, the darlings don't like their staus quo shattered

They rail not only against cars, but even pedestrians.

Witness the comment by 'Nobody' at #23:
"I love it when Gothamist or Curbed links to posts like this. Then you get a whole bunch of snarky comments by people who know absolutley zero about the issue at hand."

Oh, yeah, And you do, buster? No one else knows anything about traffic patterns and the law except you and your little friends at Trans/ Alt?

The obsessive person who took the video should give equal time to illegal actions by cyclists. Stand at PPW and Union and see how many damn cyclists run the red light.

Now watch them come after me!

Sorry, guys, I know the truth hurts.
Simple fact: most people don't like cyclists the way they currently behave.
Clean up your act before you criticize others.

cyclists tend to be assholes

but not nearly as bad as drivers
cars have no place in prospect park - ever

unfortunately any debate about cars in the park is wekend when the behavior of cyclists is used as a counter-attack.

that leaves us pedestrians screwed from both sides.

but i'll say it again

cars have NO place in prospect park, this is a wrong that desperately needs to be righted

Number 30, please see Number 24. Next.

It's wonderful having a dialogue about the issue of whether we should have cars in parks or not. It's a shame that much of this dialogue doesn't focus on the pros and cons or costs and benefits of having cars in parks v. restricting their use but rather becomes name-calling with racial and class undertones. It's quite possible if both sides tone down the rhetoric, solutions could be reached that better consider the needs of the community. For example, perhaps if the City provided better mass transit options, folks would not have to rely on cars as much. Personally -- and I will disclaim here that I am an outspoke critic of our society's in general and the City's in particular reliance on cars -- I challenge those car advocates among you to explain why the rest of us should continue to subsidize private car use in terms of free parking on City streets and why we should all bear the cost of your driving a car in terms of pollution not to mention the hazzards of being killed or maimed while you are the only ones enjoying the benefit(s) (if there are any) of driving? AW

I'm against cars in Prospect Park AND I'm against cyclists riding on the sidewalks. It's possible to be against both, and the fact that there are rude bikers out there has little impact on this argument. Bad behavior in one place doesn't excuse it somewhere else.

If someone would like to film cyclists on the sidewalks, go right ahead. It's a valid complaint. But I fail to see how it has anything to do with what's happening in this case. Let's keep the debate on-topic.

Yes, the two Parks were built before cars.
And before bicycles too!!

However, horses wee permitted - encouraged - on the park drives. (That is how Harlem River Drive got its name - not from driven cars, but from driven horse carriages that would rally there on Sunday afternoons in the late 19th century. It was a natural evolution from horse carriages to horseless carriages)

Ever walk over horse manure on a rainy day to get to the Long Meadow? That's fun. Let's return to those days.

Shall we ban bikes and cars and return to horses?
Is that the historicity you seek?

Fact is, there were cars on those drives for over a century. I remember in the late 40s, as a child, seeing the cars in Prospect Park.

No one complained then. It wasn't till the 80s or so until Yuppies started invading our fair borough that there was talk of closing the park.

And, Clarence, I can't tell you how many times people have complained about illegal cyclists. A lot more people than who complain about 15 minutes of tardiness by a city employee.

I think the comments from non-Transportation Alterntive people today reflect that overall sense of disdain the general population feels towards cyclists. Why? Becaue they seem constantly to be violating our laws.

I realize these 'outside' comments are disturbing to the insular world of cycling advocates, but they reflect the general sense of what non-cycling New Yorkers feel about cyclists.

As I said, to be fair, equitable and unbiased, Doug should video tape how many cyclists run red lights at PPW and Union Street, to name but one example.

And Adam White above wants cars to be charged for parking on city streets. Fine, they are, Adam. That is why there are thousands and thousands of parking meters and garages in the city.

Again, to be fair and neutral, shouldn't bikes be charged as well for parking on public sidewalks?

And what about the cyclist who forever chains her bike to my building landing - private property?

Time to clean up your act, guys and gals. if you want respect, you must give respect.

"But the most grotesque of all is the idea that it is ELITIST to want cars out of Prospect Park. My god. It’s wealthy people who have second homes nestled in nature; it’s wealthy people who have gym memberships where they can exercise unmolested by automobiles; and it’s wealthy people who have backyards."

And it's wealthy people who are in a position to sit at a computer with an internet connection at 2:00 in the afternoon and have pointless debates about this kind of thing. It's also wealthy people that can afford video cameras and video editing software and the time to spend on this stuff. It's also wealthy people that buy $2000 bikes. If you have one of those STFU please. Thanks in advance.

Who the hell are you kidding pretending to be non-elitist? Give it a rest. Seriously, this entire thing is a circle jerk. The working poor aren't exactly reading this blog. And the OP isn't one of them in any event.

In every single major land-use/resource argument that I've observed in this borough, from cars in prospect park to bike lanes to Ikea to Atlantic Crossing, it's been upper class well educated whites on one side and the working class minorities (who are a majority of this borough) on the other. Apologies for pointing out the obvious but not everyone wants what you want.

Get together a rally to ban cars from the park where 90% or more of the attendees aren't white, with bachelors degree or higher, born outside of the five boroughs, and earning 3x the minimum wage or more. Let's see it.

As soon as I do I'll rescind my elistist comments. Ain't holding my breath.

Amazing, this video is about drivers breaking the law and all people can do is shift the debate to other things. That's a key debate tactic used when people are on the losing end.

Amazing, this video is about drivers breaking the law FOR 15 MINUTES WHEN THE GATES WEREN'T CLOSED and all people can do is shift the debate to other things LIKE BANNING CARS PERMANENTLY FROM THE PARK.

That’s a key debate tactic used when people are on the losing end.

YUP, THANKS FOR YOUR CANDOR

$2,000 bike? I use a $45 bike to get around the Park. What does that make me?