Dr. Shoup: Parking Guru!

Shoup, here he is!

World-regarded as an expert on parking policy, UCLA Urban Planning Professor Dr. Donald Shoup is the author of The High Cost of Free Parking, a publication so popular among scholars and devotees that he attracts groupies known as Shoupistas at book signings!

High Cost of Free Parking book jacket

According to Dr. Shoup, free parking is the root problem of many of the ills that face our biggest cities. He posits that reforming parking policy will lead to a better pedestrian environment, cleaner streets and air, safer downtown shopping districts, and - yes - even less headaches for drivers trying to find that ever elusive curb space.

In March 2007, Dr. Shoup paid a visit to NYC to enlighten city leaders with his research. Here's part of a taped chat with The Open Planning Project's Mark Gorton.


[intro music]

Mark Gorton: [00:12] I’m here today with Professor Donald Shoup, who is a Professor of Urban Planning at UCLA and one of the world’s leading experts on parking. And Professor Shoup, you’ve been brought to New York to help enlighten us a little bit about parking. So let me ask you, I spent time trying to think about parking policy. I read your book, The High Cost of Free Parking, which I think is very aptly named because I think the name conveys a lot. How do you tell, you know, people who just have a few seconds to think about parking, what wisdom do you have to offer them?


Dr Donald Shoup: [00:45] Well I would say that getting the price of parking right will do a world of good. I think that by the right price I mean the lowest price you can charge that will lead to a few vacant spaces. It will reduce cruising for parking. It will reduce air pollution. It’ll make the pedestrian life better. It will reduce energy and maybe even slow global warming. But more than any of that, I think getting the price of curb parking right will immensely improve the public realm of New York, how we use the sidewalks, how we enjoy our neighbourhoods. And numbers of people would benefit, it’s just about everybody in New York.


Mark Gorton: [01:28] What are New York’s policies today? And how are they flawed? And what can we do to improve them?


Dr Donald Shoup: [01:33] I don’t see why people have to pay market rents to live in a neighbourhood but the car should live rent-free. I think in New York you have expensive housing for people and free parking for cars. You’ve got your priorities exactly the wrong way round. If curb parking is free, and all the spaces are full and you want to park, the only thing you can do is drive around the block, hunting for parking. You drive around this block and then maybe have no luck, you drive around the next block and you keep on going until you see a space being vacated by another driver, then you pull in. So you’ve got the free parking space but you’ve spent a lot of time waiting to get it. That maybe a good bargain for you. The problem with this policy is that you’re congesting traffic for everybody else, that cars that are wanting to go some place and they’re mixed in with people like you who aren’t going anywhere, you’ve already arrived.


Mark Gorton: [02:29] Well so how many people are actually just driving around looking for parking?


Dr Donald Shoup: [02:33] Well a study was recently done in Soho and asking drivers who were stopped at red lights whether they were hunting for parking, and 29% of them said they were hunting for a parking space. So if you charge the right price for curb parking, by which I mean the price would lead to about a 15% vacancy rate, nobody would be driving around hunting for a parking space. So you could take off the road 29% of the cars in Manhattan, if that’s an average. The reason I would suggest that there are huge advantages for New York to change it, to reform these policies is because great improvements have been achieved elsewhere.


Mark Gorton: [03:15] Could you talk a little bit about Pasadena, I guess Old Town Pasadena, and what they did there and why that was so successful?


Dr Donald Shoup: [03:24] The city wanted to put in parking metres and the merchants of the property said, no way, it’ll chase away the few customers we have. And the city actually bought the parking metres and stored them for two years while they argued. And finally the city said, well if we put in the parking metres, we’ll spend all the metre revenue in Pasadena. And like that the merchants said, that’s different, you didn’t tell us that. Let’s run the metres till midnight, let’s run them on Sunday. And they put in the metres, they immediately borrowed enough money to rebuild every sidewalk and all the alleys, they put the wires underground, they put in store street lights. And now it’s one of the most popular tourist destinations in Southern California. There are over 40,000 people visit there on a weekend to walk around and marvel at the place. And it’s all because of the money that comes out of those metres, that steam cleans the sidewalks twice a month, that pays for added police protection, that removes graffiti every night. That I think returning the metre revenue to the metered neighbourhoods is the political key to unlocking the public wealth of the city.


Mark Gorton: [04:35] You know part of what we’re, you know, the Livable Streets movement is advocating in New York is, you know, making a lot of improvements to the street, to improve the life of neighbourhoods and this is one very local source of money that could be a great way to do that.


Dr Donald Shoup: [04:51] I would say that if in Manhattan you try it out as a pilot programme in any business district, and said any business district that wants it, that they have to ask for it. And say… but the city has to offer it before they can ask for it. We will adjust the prices of parking, day and night, weekend and weekday, to achieve about an 85% occupancy rate, and spend the revenue on improving your business district, you would see very quickly what that policy would do. And I suspect other neighbourhoods would say, I want that.


Mark Gorton: [05:26] The people talk about vacancy targets, which means you set the price so that there are always 15 or 20% of the spaces available.


Dr Donald Shoup: [05:33] The city ought to set the lowest price that it can charge and still have one or two vacant spaces on every block. I know that some people say that’s not going to be fair. But think of it this way, when you underprice the curb parking so there are no spaces vacant, you have cars driving around, looking for parking, they’re congesting traffic, they’re polluting the air, they’re interfering with pedestrians, cos they almost always turn right at every intersection, they’re wasting fuel, so, but it comes to issues of equity or morality. I think I have the moral high ground when I say that it is fair to charge the lowest price of to yield a few vacant spaces and spend all the revenue on fixing up the pedestrian realm where most people spend most of their travel time.

[music]

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  • Lars

    I wanna be a Shoup-ista!

  • viewer

    I think the streetsfilm team chose great topics and i enjoy your films. however, i think you don't need to cut to a picture of a parking spot after every sentence.

    in this film - during the discussion of Pasadena - you show images of a random muni meter. is this in Pasadena? does it matter? if you want to cut to images - show before/after images of Pasadena.

  • http://www.livablestreets.com/people/trorb/ Clarence

    Viewer (#2):

    Those meters are MuniMeters from NYC in the 34th to 42nd street area. Since we had edits to cover up we had to cut to something and since we had no access to Pasadena images (that were free) and a deadline to meet we put those in there. As you probably realize, we are working with a very small budget and short turnaround times.

    Thanks for the feedback and kudos!

  • http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/03/20/streetfilm-interview-with-parking-guru-donald-shoup/ Streetsblog » StreetFilm: Interview with Parking Guru Donald Shoup

    [...] Donald Shoup Speaks with Mark Gorton [...]

  • David Wise

    This is an excellent piece of work and very informative. I've passed it around widely around my transportation department and local business community. Work like this is so valuable at really creating awareness - great job!

  • ecm

    Nice work again, folks. You're always interviewing people with interesting points of view.

    I'm a bit confused, though. So, 25% of traffic (in the SoHo example) is cars looking for parking. If it cost people money to park, they wouldn't want to drive because they wouldn't want to pay to park....so then they wouldn't drive and then there would be more places for other people to park, and therefore 25% less traffic? Plus we'd have monies to pay for pedestrian improvements? Is this right?

    I wonder if people would really drive less and just grudgingly pony up the money to park. At least, I guess we'd have money to pay for much-need ped improvements, and maybe those ped improvements would then encourage people to walk/bike/etc.

  • http://www.livablestreets.com/people/trorb/ Clarence

    UPDATE:

    Dr. Shoup was able to send us a few Pasadena slides from his presentation. We put 'em in so you can get a small taste of what the experience is like.

    Toodle-loo!

  • Scofflaw

    What a pompous posterior this guy is. L.A,is based on the car and we don't need some clown trying to figure out how to fleece us while making the situation worse. If you want a good laugh, Google 'Guru' can't convince the critics at meeting'. He got laughed out of a town meeting in San Diego. Or check out 'A Pile of Shoup' on the http://westwoodparking.blogspot.com/...

  • http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/uws-streets-renaissance-double-parking/ StreetFilms » UWS Streets Renaissance: Double Parking

    [...] policy is one of the biggest challenges that faces New York City and the rest of the U.S.  In this related StreetFilm, Donald Shoup explains how responsible pricing can solve the woes of double [...]

  • bluehoo

    "I’m a bit confused .. If it cost people money to park, they wouldn’t want to drive because they wouldn’t want to pay to park….so then they wouldn’t drive and then there would be more places for other people to park, and therefore 25% less traffic?"

    I believe the theory is not so much that a significant amount people would not drive because of the increased cost, but that there would be less congestion because they don't have to spend extra time hunting for an open space, because the price is set high enough that an open space is always available.

  • http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/01/upper-west-siders-its-your-neighborhood-what-would-you-fix/ Streetsblog » Upper West Siders: It’s Your Neighborhood. What Would You Fix?

    [...] policy is one of the biggest challenges that faces New York City and the rest of the U.S. In this related StreetFilm, Donald Shoup explains how responsible pricing can solve the woes of double [...]

  • http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/11/02/push-for-congestion-pricing-spurs-parking-reform/ Streetsblog » Push for Congestion Pricing Spurs Parking Reform

    [...] is made up entirely of motorists cruising for parking space. T.A. also brought UCLA parking guru Don Shoup to New York City to meet with business leaders, police and DOT officials. Shoup's message that [...]

  • http://transitinutah.blogspot.com/ John D

    I am using this on my blog, provided plenty to think about for any major city.

  • http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/illustrating-parking-reform-with-dr-shoup/ StreetFilms » Illustrating Parking Reform with Dr. Shoup

    [...] Related StreetFilm: Dr. Shoup: Parking Guru [...]

  • http://www.streetsblog.org/2007/12/21/donald-shoup-plays-with-parking-fees-and-matchbox-cars/ Streetsblog » Donald Shoup Plays With Parking Fees and Matchbox Cars

    [...] StreetFilm: Dr. Shoup: Parking Guru Filed by Aaron Naparstek under Parking, Street Films Link Digg This Email [...]

  • http://www.ferrypointpark.org Dotti

    What about the huge wasted space taken by illegally parked Tractor Trailers and Box Trucks throughout
    the Boroughs????
    What about the pollution produced by their motors and generators running all night.
    There is no booting or towing because there is no impound area large enough for all these illegal vehicles.

  • http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2008/01/15/the-high-cost-of-free-parking/ The High Cost of Free Parking « Xing Columbus
  • http://www.unige.ch/ses/geo/oum Patrick Boillat

    I just discovered your website and I think it is a great platform. I work in transportation planning in Geneva Switzerland and I'm convinced it is essential to promote livable streets and a vibrant city life for urban communities. People like Donald Shoup, or like the brilliant Jane Jacobs was, are fantastic promoters of these ideas.

  • http://lacreekfreak.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/why-i-creek-freak-like-bike/ Why I, creek freak, like bike! « L.A. Creek Freak

    [...] Urban development that is pedestrian-centric or transit-oriented can be very compact, where car-centric development sprawls across our landscape, extending impermeable surfaces more broadly. One big culprit in this vicious cycle is parking requirements. For every car, whether a prius or a hummer, we build at least 3 parking spaces. (In L.A. I’ve heard the number is more like 6 or 7, but I couldn’t find a  reference for this.) For a lot of interesting work on how parking impacts cities and the environment check out the work of UCLA professor Don Shoup; I recommend starting with this short interview. [...]

  • http://blog.uta.edu/spa/2009/10/market-based-pricing-in-santa-monica/ Market Based Pricing in Santa Monica

    [...] This is an idea championed by Donald Shoup of UCLA, who wrote The High Cost of Free Parking. More information about his market based pricing theory is available on his site, or an informative interview on Streetfilms. [...]

  • Al opf Mountain View

    Dr. Shoup, What are your thoughts and have you checked out the use of Automatic Car parking Systems? Cost Vs. use? Thanks , Al

  • http://www.seattle-internet.com/?p=165 Nighttime paid parking on Broadway? Increased fines? Just the start of fixing Capitol Hill parking | Seattle Internet

    [...] parking guru, Professor Donald Shoup in his book The High Cost of Free Parking illustrates how “ getting the price of parking right will do a world of good ” . Shoup explains that by setting street parking rates at the right level, cities can not only [...]

  • http://sanjose.metblogs.com/2010/02/17/dr-donald-shoup-the-high-cost-of-free-parking/ Dr. Donald Shoup: The High Cost of Free Parking | San Jose Metblogs

    [...] Streetfilms – Dr. Shoup: Parking Guru! [...]

  • http://sf.streetsblog.org/2010/02/22/this-week-in-livable-streets-events-34/ Streetsblog San Francisco » This Week in Livable Streets Events

    [...] Everybody Wants a Spot: Why Free Parking is a Bad Idea. See Donald Shoup, author of The High Cost of Free Parking, speak about the critical reasons cities need to reform [...]

  • http://www.agriaffaires.us Tony

    Free parking is cheap way to keep the oil and car companies in business. How about free gas? Yeah right, like that'll ever happen.

    To fix a problem we cannot proceed by throwing money at the issue nor withdrawing money from the issue. Another solution must be provided such as alternate energy. He speaks of cleaning the air and liberating city streets from the oppression of vehicle. While that may divert an issue for a moment that does certainly not 'fix' anything. Get cleaner cars and then you've fixed something.

  • http://uptownpartnership.wordpress.com/2010/03/18/creating-green-streets/ Creating “Green” Streets « Uptown Partnership

    [...] park your car and, in many cases, traffic circulation comes to a screeching halt. According to UCLA Professor Donald Shoup, cruising for parking makes up 30% of traffic congestion, behavior that increases carbon emissions [...]

  • http://www.civicintersection.com/parking-guru-on-getting-the-price-right/ Parking Guru on Getting the Price Right | Civic Intersection

    [...] of the Open Planning Project on March 14, 2007 in New York City.  The interview, available at Streetfilms, began with a request to Professor Shoup to provide in “a few seconds” his views about [...]

  • http://worldstreets.wordpress.com/2010/10/21/the-end-of-the-parking-meter/ “The end of the parking meter” | World Streets

    [...] is a good interview of Professor Shoup by Mark Gorton of New York’s The Open Planning Project in which he sets [...]

  • Mark

    Shoup would place the ENTIRE burden on the poorer people. Rich and affluent people don't have to do ANYTHING at all to help. 

    This is just a plan to get the irritating poorer people out of the way of the reach people. 

    Shoup is just a routine elitist jerk who dares to be even more elitists than those who preceded him. There is nothing new in his ideas other than to take them to ever more extremes.

  • http://feeds.grist.org/click.phdo?i=80ddd19f03d558d1b57ea9707cadff9f The economic case for on-street bike parking | Grist

    [...] bend over backwards to make car parking easy and cheap. The costs never seem to be too high, the urban real estate too valuable, or alternatives to [...]

  • http://mystuff.squareserve.com/?p=2552 The economic case for on-street bike parking — My Blog

    [...] bend over backwards to make car parking easy and cheap. The costs never seem to be too high, the urban real estate too valuable, or alternatives to [...]

  • http://nuovamobilita.wordpress.com/2011/04/13/la-bici-leva-delleconomia-urbana/ La bici leva dell’economia urbana. | Nuova Mobilità

    [...] facciamo in quattro per rendere il parcheggio delle automobili facile ed economico. I costi per questo non sembrano mai troppo alti, lo spazio utilizzato mai abbastanza prezioso e le [...]

  • http://www.buying-green.com/the-economic-case-for-on-street-bike-parking The economic case for on-street bike parking | Buying Green – Buying-Green

    [...] bend over backwards to make car parking easy and cheap. The costs never seem to be too high, the urban real estate too valuable, or alternatives to [...]

  • http://www.smartcitymemphis.com/2011/04/the-economic-case-for-on-street-bike-parking/ Hitler Hated Bike Lanes, and the Economic Case for On-Street Bike Parking « Smart City Memphis

    [...] bend over backwards to make car parking easy and cheap. The costs never seem to be too high, the urban real estate too valuable, or alternatives to [...]

  • http://transbayblog.com/2011/04/20/could-parking-policy-benefit-from-more-regional-oversight/ Could parking policy benefit from more regional oversight? « Transbay Blog

    [...] launches SFpark, a program that implements the type of demand-based pricing scheme advocated by Donald Shoup.  Through SFpark, both on-street and off-street supply in designated pilot areas, which include [...]

  • http://glatwg.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/bike-parking-ordinance-comment-letter-support-bike-parking-and-affordable-housing/ Bike Parking Ordinance Comment Letter – Support Bike Parking and Affordable Housing « Green L.A. Transportation Working Group

    [...] to affordable housing. Many of us (myself included) are generally Shoupistas – followers of Donald Shoup. In The High Cost of Free Parking, Shoup makes a convincing case that unjustifiedly high suburban [...]

  • http://citythink.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/londoners-consummate-love-affair-with-free-parking-late-at-night/ Londoners consummate love affair with free parking late at night « Citythink's Blog

    [...] of theorists self-described as Shoup-istas. (see a great interview with Donald Shoup by Streetfilms here.) While working in the road pricing space, had the pleasure of sharing a meal in Greenwich Village [...]

  • Fred

    Nevermind that the film talks about "free parking" while showing a car pulling into a meter, or the professor claims "they almost always turn right at every intersection", while showing a car turning left.

    This is nothing but a tax grab - enticing the local merchants and neighborhood residents and non-drivers to approve a new revenue stream.

  • http://www.bikede.org/2011/04/11/the-economic-case-for-on-street-bike-parking/ The economic case for on-street bike parking | Bike Delaware

    [...] bend over backwards to make car parking easy and cheap. The costs never seem to be too high, the urban real estate too valuable, or alternatives to [...]

  • Anonymous

    Poor people don't drive, Mark. They walk or take mass transit, and then they are forced to pay, through store prices, for parking spaces for the wealthier customers. How do you justify that in your world?

  • http://sf.streetsblog.org/2011/11/22/commentary-san-franciscans-tired-of-free-parking-dysfunction/ Streetsblog San Francisco » Commentary: San Franciscans Tired of Free Parking Dysfunction

    [...] Streetsblog has written extensively, when parking is underpriced, we all pick up the tab. On Sundays and weeknights after 6 p.m., free parking throughout the city means drivers have no [...]

  • http://thegreatermarin.wordpress.com/2012/01/20/the-smart-area-part-2-all-those-cars/ The SMART Area, Part 2: All Those Cars « The Greater Marin

    [...] you probably can guess, I’m not one in favor of parking.  You could call me a Shoupite, I suppose: parking has its place, but it should not be required, and where there is a shortage of [...]